The River Of Bile - On Steroids

It's strange the journeys that can follow a single step. I must admit that when lovable rascal Fintan O'Toolbox first approached me to discuss providing a guest post I expected something a little lighthearted - even on the one occasion we met he seems disinclined to break character.

I was pleasantly disappointed to find that, instead of his usual hilarious output, he'd opted for some serious investigative journalism. I feel I've covered vaccine opposition, American influence and superstition prevalent in pro life groups in Ireland, but Fintan breaks fresh ground for this blog by exposing ties to the extreme far right.

Do enjoy, and don't forget to follow him on Twitter.

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Hi, my name is Fintan O'Toolbox, some of you may know me as that annoyingly smug git who writes for Donegal Dollop and live-tweets the Bible most evenings. Geoff recently, very kindly, offered me the opportunity to write a guest post for his wonderful blog. Naturally, I jumped at the opportunity, however, the original idea for my post ended up taking a few bizarre twists and turns so I hope you can bear with me...

One of my favourite topics for debate (trolling) on Twitter is the concept of morality and where it comes from. In my experience, I've often found Catholics strongly opposed to the idea of moral relativism — the notion that morality evolves in accordance with the shifting sands of social progress and that it reflects the general consensus of the masses when it comes to the concept of right and wrong. Instead, they seem to favour the idea that morality is objective and immutable — remaining the same eternally, regardless of whatever we mere mortals may decide among ourselves as a society. I've always considered this to be a strange position for a Catholic to take given that the Old Testament is action-packed with rape [1-4], genocide [5-8], slavery [9-10], and even abortion [11], and given that the catechism still considers this section of the Bible to be entirely valid and inerrant [12]. Regardless of what side of the morality fence you sit on, the average Irish Catholic is, in my experience, generally quite content not to shove this core belief down your throat (it's certainly never become a bone of contention between me and my Catholic friends). However, there are certain groups on the religious right who argue (often very loudly) that moral relativism poses a grave threat to Irish society and must be opposed at every turn.

If morality is indeed objective and the most favourable path towards this morality is via a Catholic belief system, as these groups appear to claim, then surely the proof would be in the empirical pudding? Surely anyone who follows this kind of belief system (particularly someone who clings to it with zeal and wears these beliefs on their sleeve) will be a decent person who contributes positively to society? Failing that, you would at least assume that such a person couldn't possibly end up being a horrible individual who has nothing to offer but negativity. Well, with this assumption in mind, I always keep an eye out on Twitter for people who appear to be singing loudly from the same hymn sheet as the religious right, just to see what kind of people they are. Anyway, one day I came across a very interesting chap called Michael Quinn (no relation to David, as far as I know). Michael doesn't seem to like Jews or black people very much.

White (irrelevant), British (irrelevant) And EX-Muslim

I've never really asked for feedback on my guest post policy. I like finding interesting folk with different views to me that are willing to share their perspectives with readers here. It was for this reason that I was happy to host Rayyan's first guest post here. At the time he'd been a Muslim for four months, and he shared a little of his experiences, answered some common questions, and managed to squeeze in some humour. I enjoyed rereading it in preparation for this post.

Rayyan's no longer a Muslim, and I found myself as interested reading how he left the faith as I was reading how he entered it. His positive impression of most Muslims he's met remains, as does his opposition to groups like the EDL, but he has a newfound concern for his safety and additional reading on Islam has changed his mind on the validity of some arguments that initially led him to Islam.

I hope you find his experiences and intellectual curiosity as interesting as I did. If you're interested in learning more about the issues affecting ex Muslims I highly recommend the Council of Ex Muslims of Britain. 


I write this today because I have found two places willing to display my opinions and thoughts, Geoff’s Shorts blog and CEMB Forum, thanks to both of the site admins. I also intend to help others overcome the fear a lot of religious people have, fear, which held me back from my inevitable apostatising; burning in the hellfire. I did not become a Muslim because I didn’t want to go to hell, I had regular contact with people who were Muslims and I saw how they were grateful for the good things in life and were very friendly people who happened to be Muslims and for me this communication set me on a path of research eventually leading me to Scholars on YouTube and I found it satisfied my need to find the meaning of life. I looked past the lunatics like Anjem Choudary and his crew. Even today I reject the stereotype of Muslims being evil it is total nonsense. There is a popular way of thinking here in the UK, people put Islam and Muslims in one category when it comes to acts of terrorism committed in the name of Islam, Muslims are people and Islam a religion. I based my decisions on real life interaction with Muslims some of whom appear to have somewhat limited knowledge on Islam and then further on my discovery of the faith itself.

Guest Post: I Had An Abortion

I've made a lot of great new friends since starting this blog, and I've had the opportunity to interact with folk who I wouldn't normally expect to spend time with. It's been an interesting journey. What I've also found is that having some involvement in pro choice activism has changed my relationship with those I already knew.

I recently learnt that, years ago, a friend had had an abortion.

It's something she'd rather keep anonymous, but I felt glad that in some small way I could help give her a way to talk openly about her experience.

I take two things from this. First, I'm glad that being openly pro choice means my friends feel comfortable talking to me about their experiences. Second, I regret she worried people might judge her. If you're pro choice, please let your friends know. They might need someone to talk to. But enough of me. Here was my friend's experience:

Like a lot of young, Irish people I set off after college seeking excitement abroad. And I got it – in abundance. I lived a fantastic few years working and travelling. I met a lovely guy; we were young and really fell for each other.

Then disaster struck. I confided in a friend that I didn’t feel myself and she suggested that I might be pregnant. That and a sick day from work worried me enough to buy a test. It was positive. I was 25, and this wasn’t part of the plan for my boyfriend, or for me.

Under the (American) Influence

It's always a pleasure to be offered a guest post. Often in the past I've taken the opportunity to give voice to someone who holds a different viewpoint to mine, and I've had fine articles from Christian and Muslim bloggers. In this instance, however, Kath O'Meara and I have little on which to disagree.

She writes from the perspective of an American expatriate living in Ireland and has dug up some fascinating information on our friends across the water. It's great to have such a succinct overview of the situation on file and it makes me realise that much of my output assumes prior knowledge of the Irish situation. My thanks to Kath for this. Do tweet her your appreciation on @KathOMeara. If you enjoy her writing you should check out her blog.

Do enjoy.

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As an American and long-term resident in Ireland (gratefully and by choice), I would like to state for the record:  

I am sorry.   

I am sorry a bunch of arrogant Yanks think they know better than the people of Ireland and have the right to influence Irish society.   

I am sorry that these religious fundamentalists are sticking their noses (and wallets) into the Irish question on abortion and sending money to be used on questionable publicity including billboards ,leaflets and posters.

I am sorry about the illegal robocalls, which originated in the US. 

When I first heard that far-right anti-choice groups in Ireland were being shored up with American dollars the first thought in my mind was "Oh man, I thought I got away from you people!" You see for me, one of the perks about living in Ireland is that I am thousands of miles away from the bible thumping I-know-better-than-you hell and brimstone fundies who can’t seem to stop themselves from trying to control a woman’s right to bodily integrity. A strategy which has not stopped although safe and legal abortions are now available in the US via the landmark Supreme Court case ofRoe v. Wade.

The Pro Life Atheist Guest Post

I'd like to thank David for writing the below. Like many of my past guest posts it's fair to say we disagree but  there's little point in blogging if you're not going to listen to those of differing opinions and as an atheist opposed to abortion his voice is one not often heard in the debate.

I requested this guest post through a rather unusual method. I'd examined the Twitter account of @ProLifeAtheists and found that most of their followers were Catholic. While I still consider @ProLifeAtheists a poor example for those seeking to demonstrate diversity among those opposed to abortion, it was never my intention to imply that being an atheist and not being pro choice were mutually exclusive. I'm glad that David has been willing to give of his time to share his thinking.

He's indicated that he'll be happy to respond to comments below as time allows. I know that he's a busy chap and appreciate any time he can give.

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I was asked to put some of my thoughts on paper because I happen to be an atheist who happens to be ‘pro-life’. I was asked to explain ‘why I'm an atheist’ and to also outline my feelings on abortion.

Well, I was born to Catholic parents. I was educated in a Catholic environment, and I would say that my present ‘values’ would be Christian influenced. But who was Christ? Well at this stage, to me, he was a man who lived a few thousand years ago who had some pretty enlightened ideas on how people should live with each other, ideas which, I think, have much in common with most other religions/social philosophies of the world. To me, Jesus was a man with ideas, and he wasn't the first or last person in history to have been persecuted for proclaiming unconventional or unfashionable ideas. From around the age of 16 I finally decided to defy my parents by no longer routinely going to mass with with them on Sundays, cos I simply did not believe in the whole thing. As for me, ‘agnostic’ may have been what I was as I started thinking for myself as a teenager. But at this stage of my life, when I think on it, I realise that I have been an atheist for quite some time. It actually feels odd to me to realise, that if I were to be pigeon-holed, it would be into that little box marked ‘ atheist’. It’s not something I dwell on too much, and its not like I remind myself every Sunday that I'm an atheist by attending some atheist church!! And I don’t belong to any kind of atheist club or anything like that. I'm a bit surprised at the notion some people seem to have, that being an atheist can’t be compatible with being anti-abortion, and that folks might think I'm just pretending not to be some kind of praying church-going bible-bashing ultra-Catholic, disguising myself as an atheist just to try to be cool.

Caroline Simons and the Mobile Death Squads

Absent a commitment to fact checking or citing sources, many anti choice groups in Ireland are freed to produce prodigious verbiage. Lacking the dollars to employ staff we pro choice bloggers must focus our spare time and efforts on a select few; sadly, many of their contributions pass us by unchallenged.

It was with regret that I chose to overlook a blog post on the Netherlands by Caroline Simons. In an effort to accommodate those with a conscientious objection to performing euthanasia, travelling doctors fill the gap. This desire to respect the beliefs of those with a religious or other objection to helping others end their lives with dignity put Caroline Simons in mind of mobile death squads.

That this description and accompanying questionable figures has gone thus far unrebuked left me saddened. It was therefore with some delight that I received an e-mail from Graeme Lawton (pictured). He's a British expatriate, and describes himself as "living in the Netherlands for the past 21 years, married to a Dutch national and immersed in the culture and a follower of religion based politics and discourse." His combination of local knowledge and a superior commitment to research enables him to counteract many of the statements offered.

But I go on too long. Do enjoy Graeme's article.

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I've been following Geoff for a while having seen his word cloud on Stephen Law's blogsite (whom I admire as a philosopher).  I really like the demographic analysis of the clouds and as I have read his articles, I am impressed with his courteous manner and insight.  Consequently, I have been following what the main protagonists have been saying in the Irish debate of abortion laws.  I don't want to stick my oar in there to be honest.  It's a matter for the Irish people and as Geoff has highlighted, religious lobbying seems to be taking place from within America in order to affect the outcome of the debate.  I wouldn't want to be part of that.

But my interest lead to me wondering who Caroline Simons was and what was all the fuss about some video in which she denied appearing.  I "Googled" her and found her blogsite.  I was immediately impressed with a quote placed on the homepage:

‘The law doth punish man or woman
That steals the goose from off the common,
But lets the greater felon loose
That steals the common from the goose.‘                                                                                              

I like that a lot.  In the current climate of banking scandals, one can appreciate the sentiments in this delightful ditty.

I navigated to the page "About Caroline" but found nothing at all saying what she does or stands for. I did notice in the Google results that she is a solicitor. (That impressed me.  I began to think that here was someone who knew the importance of fairness, honesty and representation). Her FAQ page was also bereft of information.  So I clicked on the Blog title and scanned the article headings that appeared.  Quickly, the title "‘Quietus’ in Holland - Mobile Death Squads" caught my eye.  The reason for this is the fact that I live and work for some time now, in the Netherlands (I am British (English)).  Mobile Death Squads?  In the Netherlands?  My word!  I was astonished.  The title itself conjured up images of jack-booted, leather-clad thugs marching around and drowning the elderly in buckets of water.  I didn't know what Quietus was nor was I at all aware of what Mobile Death Squads had to do with the Netherlands.  Did it perhaps relate to the occupation years of 1940 - 45?

So, with some trepidation and lurid interest, I began to read the article.

Do Youth Defence Really Care About Rape Survivors?

Some time ago I wrote a piece on the typical Youth Defence follower. It was intended to be lighthearted: I listed the various right-wing American personalities and groups followed and wondered aloud why a supposedly Irish organisation would find their members expressing such interest. As my source material I gave a list of other groups followed by those who deem Youth Defence of interest.

As a closing comment I mentioned that there were no Irish charities on the list. (There’s one US-based charity.) Shortly afterwards I was contacted by a new friend who asked if I could get her some more details. The script I used to pool the accounts followed by Youth Defence followers had a cut-off of 11 – it was conceivable that ten Youth Defence fans supported a specific Irish charity. Nick Beard wanted to know how many, if any, supported charities that work with rape survivors.

I’d like to frame the discussion by opening with a quote from prolifeinfo.ie, a front organisation based in the same building and using the same staff as Youth Defence:

“Victims need real support not a quick-fix solution like abortion. Rape is a terrible crime against women. Victims need our support and sympathy. We should be doing a great deal more to protect and help them.” -link

Do they live by this maxim?

Guest Post: White, British and now a Muslim

Twitter can be a voyeuristic pursuit and I enjoy reading microupdates from those whose views are different from my own. I don't recall when or why I started following Rayyan, but I've enjoyed the experience. He's mid twenties, a doting father and a hardworking student. He has more on his plate than I do! Despite this he's spent a lot of time wondering about this great mystery called life.

I feel a little guilty having asked him to write a guest post. Knowing his schedule I've likely deprived him of many hours of sleep, but his is an interesting perspective and he was enthusiastic to share his thoughts here. About four months ago he embraced Islam. I've read a translation of the Qur'an and listened to those who I'd describe as professional speakers on Islam, but when following Rayyan I learned that the discussions generated by a recent convert can be amongst the most interesting and insightful.

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In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful.

May God give you peace and bless you all, I would like to thank our friend Geoff for giving me the opportunity of writing here on his webpage. Today I aim to give a brief introduction as to who I am and God willing move on to three common misconceptions of Islam today.

My name is Rayyan, I’m a 25 year old man, blessed with a five year old daughter who lives with me full time (lone parent), and I lose my house keys at least three times a year. I invested a year self-studying religion and four months ago today declared I believe in one God and I accept Mohammed as God’s slave and final messenger. If I may, I ask you all to have an open mind and try to be free of all media influence such as the news and ask you not to associate culture with Islam e.g. forced marriages, honour killings etc.

Guest Post - Christianity's Worst Enemy

Some time ago I was asked on Twitter what evidence I felt made the best case in favour of Christianity. In the same tweet I was asked what presented the strongest evidence against the faith. Mindful of the character limit I answered both questions the same: Some Christians I've met.

I've given perhaps undue focus to those who represent Christianity badly. This is not intended as a tirade against believers; flicking through my past issues I see a preponderance of faith healers and attackers of science. I think it's important to debunk these, but I'm starting to realise that this blog presents a jaundiced view of Christians in general.

With that in mind I'm happy to announce my second Christian guest post. I offered Roger the opportunity to write about the subject of his choice. He could have chosen to evangelise. He could have written counters to any number of posts I've written. He could have turned his focus on atheists in general: we are not flawless. Instead he took the opportunity to examine those who profess Christianity.

Roger says that there are few further apart than he and I on the spectra of religion, politics and societal matters. It is true, and that is why I enjoy our conversations - when we cease to disagree it means only that we have nothing left to learn from each other.

I hope you enjoy his post. Do consider following him on Twitter and checking out his blog.

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First let me express my gratitude to Geoff for this opportunity. I have only ‘known’ Geoff for a short time, but have grown to value his gracious and gentlemanly spirit and count him as a ‘friend’ already. I once said that I think there are very few things that Geoff and I would agree on, but I have enjoyed discussing the issues we have discussed.

You see, I am a Christian. I am not just a ‘Christian’ in the generic sense of the word but I am one of those ‘evangelical, born-again, Bible believing’ Christians. I doubt there are very many people who could be farther apart on the religious/political/social spectrum than Geoff and me.